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Evidence-based GLP-1 & peptide discussion since 2023
ForumsPharmacology & MechanismsGLP-1/GIP receptor co-agonism — what worked for you? Page 2

GLP-1/GIP receptor co-agonism — what worked for you?

zoe_NC Tue, Feb 18, 2025 at 4:25 AM 13 replies 1,641 viewsPage 2 of 3
SleepDoc_PDX
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Portland, OR
Feb 18, 2025 at 7:15 AM#6
Let me add clinical trial data that helps distinguish these mechanisms: Drug holiday studies: If the weight loss plateau is primarily receptor desensitization (true tolerance), then a drug holiday followed by re-initiation should show RESTORED efficacy (resensitized receptors). If it's primarily physiological equilibrium, re-initiation should NOT show enhanced efficacy (the counter-regulatory environment persists). There isn't a well-designed study specifically testing this, but the STEP 4 trial provides relevant data: > "In STEP 4, patients who received semaglutide 2.4 mg for 20 weeks and were then randomized to continue semaglutide or switch to placebo for 48 weeks showed that the semaglutide continuation group maintained their weight loss while the placebo switch group regained two-thirds of their lost weight, confirming sustained pharmacological activity during the plateau phase." > — Rubino et al., *JAMA*, 2021; 325(14):1414–1425 This argues AGAINST true tolerance — the drug is still working at plateau, it's just fighting against stronger counter-regulatory forces. The switch-to-placebo group's weight regain trajectory is also informative. If there were significant receptor desensitization, you'd expect an INITIAL period after stopping where weight is stable (because the desensitized receptors aren't doing anything anyway). Instead, weight regain begins almost immediately, suggesting the drug effect was fully active right up until discontinuation.
Last edited: Feb 18, 2025 at 10:15 AM
6 23pete_nash, hank_denver, carlos_SATX and 3 others
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MASHdoc_SA
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San Antonio, TX
Feb 18, 2025 at 7:32 AM#7
One more important distinction — the tachyphylaxis of NAUSEA vs. the sustained appetite suppression involves different CNS GLP-1R populations: Nausea tachyphylaxis: Mediated primarily by area postrema GLP-1R. The AP is a circumventricular organ with high receptor turnover and rapid desensitization kinetics. AP neurons also express high levels of GRK2 and β-arrestin-2, facilitating rapid homologous desensitization. Sustained appetite suppression: Mediated primarily by ARC and NTS GLP-1R neurons. These neuronal populations have lower GRK2 expression and maintain responsive GLP-1R signaling for longer periods. > "Selective lesion of the area postrema in rats eliminated exendin-4-induced pica behavior (a rodent correlate of nausea) without affecting the anorexigenic response, demonstrating anatomical dissociation of these two GLP-1R-mediated effects and suggesting different desensitization trajectories." > — Kanoski et al., *Endocrinology*, 2012; 153(2):647–658 This anatomical dissociation is CLINICALLY CRITICAL. It means the dose-escalation strategy works because: 1. At low doses: nausea is manageable, appetite suppression begins 2. During escalation: AP desensitizes → nausea resolves 3. At target dose: AP is desensitized (no nausea) but ARC/NTS maintain responsiveness (appetite suppression persists) If ALL CNS GLP-1R populations desensitized at the same rate as the AP, these drugs would have a much narrower therapeutic window.
40 23TrialTracker_MD, JennaRN, LabKate and 37 others
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JakeBK_lifts
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Feb 18, 2025 at 7:49 AM#8
Perfect synthesis. Let me create a final summary framework: TACHYPHYLAXIS (minutes to days): - Mechanism: GRK-mediated receptor phosphorylation → β-arrestin recruitment → internalization - Affected endpoints: gastric emptying, nausea, acute heart rate increase - Clinical management: occurs during dose escalation, generally beneficial (resolves side effects) - Receptor reserve: low for these endpoints TOLERANCE (weeks to months): - Mechanism: receptor downregulation, compensatory pathway upregulation, possible reduced receptor reserve - Affected endpoints: partial — appetite suppression intensity, food-cue reactivity - Clinical management: dose escalation provides incremental benefit - Receptor reserve: moderate PHYSIOLOGICAL COUNTER-REGULATION (weeks to months): - Mechanism: adaptive thermogenesis, hormonal compensation (ghrelin, leptin), reduced REE - Affected endpoints: weight loss velocity - Clinical management: NOT addressable by GLP-1RA dose escalation — requires combination with exercise, protein intake, potentially GCGR agonism (retatrutide) - Not a receptor-level phenomenon NO TOLERANCE: - Endpoints: HbA1c reduction, CV protection, glucagon suppression - Explanation: high receptor reserve for these effects, glucose-dependent mechanisms are self-calibrating This framework should guide clinical expectations: tell patients their nausea WILL resolve, their weight loss WILL plateau (it's not failure), and their diabetes management WILL remain stable long-term.
30 14LabKate, kate.chem, DataDave and 27 others
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