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Evidence-based GLP-1 & peptide discussion since 2023
Forumsβ€ΊMetabolic Health & Diabetesβ€ΊHas anyone dealt with surpass-cvot: tirzepatide cardiovascular outcomes trial design?

Has anyone dealt with surpass-cvot: tirzepatide cardiovascular outcomes trial design?

lori_vegas Sat, Aug 17, 2024 at 6:39 AM 11 replies 1,688 viewsPage 1 of 3
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lori_vegas
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Aug 17, 2024 at 8:04 AM#1

I want to break down something critically important from the SELECT trial that I think gets lost in the media noise about "weight-loss drugs."

The SELECT trial enrolled 17,604 adults with established cardiovascular disease and BMI ≥27 but without diabetes. Semaglutide 2.4 mg weekly vs. placebo. Primary endpoint: time to first MACE (CV death, nonfatal MI, nonfatal stroke).[1]

"Semaglutide reduced the risk of MACE by 20% (HR 0.80; 95% CI, 0.72–0.90; P<0.001) over a mean follow-up of 39.8 months."

Here is the key finding that everyone needs to internalize: the cardiovascular benefit was observed early — within the first few months — before clinically significant weight loss had occurred. The Kaplan-Meier curves separated by approximately month 4-6. Median weight loss at that point was only ~5-6%.

Furthermore, mediation analyses showed that weight loss accounted for only a fraction of the MACE reduction. The anti-inflammatory and direct vascular effects appear to be driving much of the benefit.

This has massive implications for how we conceptualize GLP-1 receptor agonists. They are not merely "weight loss drugs with cardiac side-benefits." They are cardiovascular drugs that also happen to cause weight loss.

[1] Lincoff AM, Brown-Frandsen K, Colhoun HM, et al. Semaglutide and Cardiovascular Outcomes in Obesity without Diabetes. N Engl J Med. 2023;389(24):2221-2232. doi:10.1056/NEJMoa2307563

43 21amy_econ_NJ, bbq_ray_KC, oliver_london and 40 others
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DataDave
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Aug 17, 2024 at 8:21 AM#2

This is exactly right and it mirrors what we saw in SUSTAIN-6 for the T2DM population. In SUSTAIN-6, semaglutide 0.5 mg and 1.0 mg reduced MACE by 26% (HR 0.74; 95% CI, 0.58–0.95) in patients with type 2 diabetes at high CV risk.[1]

The consistency across diabetic and non-diabetic populations strongly argues for a class effect that goes beyond glycemic control or weight loss. We're likely looking at:

  • Direct anti-atherosclerotic effects on vascular endothelium
  • Reduction in systemic inflammation (hsCRP reductions of 30-40%)
  • Improvements in endothelial function and arterial stiffness
  • Favorable effects on platelet aggregation

The mechanistic story is becoming very compelling.

[1] Marso SP, Bain SC, Consoli A, et al. Semaglutide and Cardiovascular Outcomes in Patients with Type 2 Diabetes. N Engl J Med. 2016;375(19):1834-1844. doi:10.1056/NEJMoa1607141

Last edited: Aug 17, 2024 at 9:21 AM
50 18mike_nyc, VendorMark, COA_Karl and 47 others
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Dr.GutHealth
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Aug 17, 2024 at 8:38 AM#3

Let me lay out the timeline data from SELECT because it really drives the point home:

TimepointMedian Weight Loss (%)MACE HR (approx.)Curve Separation
Month 3~3.5%~0.88Beginning to separate
Month 6~6.0%~0.82Clear separation
Month 12~8.5%~0.80Sustained divergence
Month 24~9.4%~0.80Persistent benefit
Month 40 (end)~9.4%0.80 (final)20% relative risk reduction

Notice that weight loss essentially plateaus after month 12-16, yet the CV benefit remains constant. If weight loss were the primary mediator, you'd expect the hazard ratio to improve proportionally with weight β€” but it doesn't. The benefit was largely "locked in" early.

The NNT (number needed to treat) over 40 months was approximately 67 to prevent one MACE event. For context, that's competitive with high-intensity statin therapy.

Last edited: Aug 17, 2024 at 1:38 PM
44 10jennifer_SEA, tyler_CSCS, VanRx_Mike and 41 others
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labquiet_amy
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Cambridge, MA
Aug 17, 2024 at 8:55 AM#4

As a patient with prior NSTEMI and BMI of 31, this trial literally changed my treatment plan. My cardiologist added semaglutide 2.4 mg not primarily for weight loss but as a secondary prevention agent alongside my statin, ACEi, and aspirin.

8 months in, my labs tell the story:

MarkerBaseline8 Months
hsCRP (mg/L)4.81.2
LDL-C (mg/dL)78 (on statin)64
Triglycerides (mg/dL)198112
A1C (%)5.95.2
Systolic BP (mmHg)138118
Weight (lbs)224198

The hsCRP drop is what excites my cardiologist the most. He says that inflammatory reduction probably matters more for my plaque stability than the 26 lbs I've lost.

49 24bri_stats, pete_manc_UK, anna.melb_AU and 46 others
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ingrid_STO
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Jul 2024
Stockholm, SE
Aug 17, 2024 at 9:12 AM#5

Your cardiologist is spot on. The CANTOS trial demonstrated that reducing inflammation (via canakinumab targeting IL-1β) lowered MACE risk independent of LDL reduction. hsCRP is not just a bystander marker — it reflects the inflammatory milieu driving plaque vulnerability.

What SELECT shows is that semaglutide may be delivering some of that anti-inflammatory benefit as a "bonus" on top of metabolic improvements. Your hsCRP dropping from 4.8 to 1.2 mg/L is a 75% reduction — that's clinically very meaningful.

I'd also point out that your triglyceride reduction (198 → 112) suggests improved hepatic insulin sensitivity and reduced VLDL production, which has downstream effects on atherogenic particle number. Have you had ApoB measured?

16 3WendyG_ATL, SaraMom3, Dr.MetabolicMD and 13 others
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