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Forumsβ€ΊPharmacology & Mechanismsβ€ΊHas anyone dealt with my pharmacist tried to explain the mechanism and my eyes glazed over?

Has anyone dealt with my pharmacist tried to explain the mechanism and my eyes glazed over?

labquiet_amy Mon, Dec 25, 2023 at 3:14 PM 34 replies 2,580 viewsPage 1 of 7
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labquiet_amy
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Dec 25, 2023 at 4:39 PM#1

Novo Nordisk's CagriSema combines cagrilintide (a long-acting amylin analog) with semaglutide in a single once-weekly injection. The REDEFINE Phase 3 program has begun reporting results, and the mechanism is scientifically fascinating.

Background on amylin: Amylin is a 37-amino-acid peptide co-secreted with insulin from pancreatic beta cells. It slows gastric emptying, suppresses glucagon, and acts on area postrema and hypothalamic nuclei to promote satiety[1]. Pramlintide (Symlin) was approved in 2005 but failed commercially due to TID dosing and only modest weight loss.

Cagrilintide is an acylated amylin analog engineered for once-weekly dosing. The Phase 2 data for CagriSema showed impressive weight loss:

Phase 2 CagriSema results (Enebo et al., Lancet 2024):[2]

  • CagriSema 2.4/2.4 mg: -15.6% at 32 weeks (vs -5.1% placebo)
  • Curves still declining at 32 weeks β€” no plateau

The REDEFINE-1 Phase 3 trial (obesity without diabetes) reported topline results showing approximately 22-23% weight loss at 68 weeks. This would position CagriSema between semaglutide alone (~15%) and tirzepatide (~21%) in efficacy.

The key question: does the amylin pathway offer something mechanistically distinct from GIP agonism, or is this just another way to get to the same ~20% weight loss ceiling?

[1] Lutz TA. Cell Mol Life Sci. 2012;69(12):1947-1965.

[2] Enebo LB, et al. Lancet. 2024.

9 11TrialNerd_Beth, HPLC_Greg, LibrarianMeg and 6 others
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kate.chem
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Dec 25, 2023 at 4:56 PM#2

The mechanism question is important. GLP-1 and amylin act on overlapping but distinct CNS circuits. GLP-1 receptors are concentrated in the nucleus tractus solitarius (NTS) and arcuate nucleus. Amylin receptors (calcitonin receptor + RAMP complexes) are densely expressed in the area postrema and also the NTS, but with distinct downstream signaling[3].

Preclinical data consistently shows that GLP-1 + amylin co-agonism produces supra-additive weight loss compared to either alone. The proposed mechanism is convergent activation of anorexigenic neurons through parallel pathways β€” essentially hitting the satiety system from two different angles simultaneously.

Contrast this with GLP-1 + GIP (tirzepatide). GIP agonism appears to enhance GLP-1's effects partly through improved GLP-1 receptor trafficking and partly through independent adipose tissue effects. But the exact mechanism of GIP's contribution to weight loss is still debated β€” some researchers argue GIP antagonism could be equally effective, which is conceptually confusing.

Amylin agonism has a clearer mechanistic rationale for additive anorectic effects. Whether this translates to better durability or different metabolic outcomes (beyond weight loss) is what Phase 3 will tell us.

[3] Hay DL, et al. Pharmacol Rev. 2015;67(3):564-600.

47 10VanRx_Mike, steve_okc, dave_SLC and 44 others
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BiostatsBrad
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Dec 25, 2023 at 5:13 PM#3

Let me contextualize the REDEFINE-1 topline result (~22.7% weight loss at 68 weeks). Head-to-head comparison at similar timepoints:

  • Semaglutide 2.4 mg (STEP 1): -14.9% at 68 weeks
  • Tirzepatide 15 mg (SURMOUNT-1): -20.9% at 72 weeks
  • CagriSema 2.4/2.4 mg (REDEFINE-1): ~-22.7% at 68 weeks

So CagriSema appears to slightly edge out tirzepatide, but cross-trial comparisons are inherently unreliable due to different patient populations, baseline BMI distributions, and trial conduct. We need head-to-head data.

Interestingly, Novo Nordisk has a head-to-head trial of CagriSema vs tirzepatide 15 mg (REDEFINE-4, I believe). If CagriSema demonstrates non-inferiority or superiority to tirzepatide in a head-to-head, that would be a major commercial and scientific result. But this trial won't report until 2026-2027.

32 24FranDenver, Dr.BariatricHTX, LindaRN_retired and 29 others
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LabKate
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Dec 25, 2023 at 5:30 PM#4

The tolerability profile is what I'm watching closely. In the Phase 2 data, GI adverse events with CagriSema were:

  • Nausea: 47%
  • Vomiting: 20%
  • Diarrhea: 23%

These are broadly similar to semaglutide alone and perhaps slightly higher. The concern is that amylin's primary pharmacological effect includes slowed gastric emptying β€” the same mechanism that contributes to nausea. Adding amylin agonism to a GLP-1 RA might create additive GI side effects.

In clinical practice, GI tolerability is often the rate-limiting factor. If CagriSema gives 22% weight loss but 50% of patients have significant nausea, real-world effectiveness (accounting for discontinuation) might not be much better than semaglutide alone.

49 1emily_PDX, Dr.SleepRoch, laura_annarbor and 46 others
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VanRx_Mike
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Dec 25, 2023 at 5:47 PM#5

Fair concern, but the Phase 3 REDEFINE trials use a more gradual dose escalation schedule than Phase 2, which should improve tolerability. Novo Nordisk has learned from the semaglutide experience β€” slower titration consistently reduces GI side effects at the cost of slower time-to-effective-dose.

The more interesting safety signal with amylin analogs is injection site reactions. Cagrilintide can cause injection site nodules due to local amyloid-like aggregation[4]. In Phase 2, ~10% of CagriSema patients reported injection site reactions vs ~3% with semaglutide alone. These are generally mild and self-limiting, but they're something to monitor in Phase 3.

Also worth noting: amylin receptor agonism is conceptually different from GIP receptor agonism in terms of long-term risks. We have decades of data on native amylin physiology and years of data on pramlintide. The long-acting pharmacology of cagrilintide is new, but the target is well-characterized.

[4] Novo Nordisk. Cagrilintide Investigator's Brochure. 2023.

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